2. Power Build: Dual Wielding Grenade Wizard

11/24/2016

Dual Wielding Grenade Wizard (Jahan pulls this off at a C- level):

1. Man-at-Arms/Scoundrel/Water/Fire/Air/Earth/Witchcraft- 1
2. Dual Wielding/Man-at-Arms/Scoundrel- 3
3. Witchcraft- 2
4. Water- 4 (Post lv 15)
5. Air-4
6. Dual Wielding- 5
*7. Willpower/Body Building +1-3

1. Slingshot
2 Pinpoint
3. Far Out Man
4. Bully
5. Opportunist
6. Backstab
7. Parry Master

Int/Dex/Str +1.5 (6.5/8/10)

OVERALL: One of the most powerful builds in the game. Period. Jahan builds into Shadowblade much better than this build (due to Jahan coming with two talents and +2 in Con) which means that much like Ranger build, no one in the game builds well into this build; strong recommendation to build second source hunter into this build.

How to play: For the Early-Mid game be sure to pick up all the "touching spells" ASAP, as you will find that they require little AP and their CC is beyond useful. Also, currently picking up "melee power stance" from Man-at-Arms and having it active will increase ALL damage by 20%, and since spells don't ever miss you will be getting an extra 20% damage for free as you will always have a melee weapon in hand. Play it safe and stay back until the enemies are CC'd or weak and then jump in with thunder jump/battering ram and all your touch spells (burning/freezing/shocking/decaying, etc. touch). Putting one point into scoundrel/man-at-arms and every other school of magic as well as into "dual wielding" will set you up solid early game. You should be throwing grenades like toilet paper- firestorm + toxic at a minimum- but grenades such as the frost grenade can make impossible fights pot shots. There are enough empty bottles to make over a hundred firestorm grenades in Cyseal alone, and you should be throwing just as many. Spam Midnight Oil and then toss. Firefly will also help you with this. Certain fights early on you will find people with "immune to fire aura", try to sneak in to the battle and teleport the person with the aura into the middle of your party to start the fight- that way all of his friends can be burned and you can take out the aura producer ASAP. By Mid-End game your spells will be powerful enough to take out most enemies, but you also can CC and destroy hand-to-hand with physical damage. You will become the ultimate weapon, and what you do in battle should depend entirely on the battle itself and the enemies you are fighting. B

*WIELD A DAGGER IN YOUR MAIN HAND AT ALL POINTS IN TIME*

Thoughts on Axe vs Mace vs Sword in your off hand: Maces deal crushing damage which for the first at least 50% of the game EVERY enemy you fight will take extra damage from crushing and reduced from slashing and piercing (sword/axe/dagger/and bow). Also a unique mace (which is fantastic) will always drop at the lighthouse and a decent unique sword will always drop around the same time. These factors make maces hands down the strongest weapon available levels 1-7 followed by the sword. Between levels 10-20 you will see less enemies that take reduced damage from slashing but you will still end up running into enemies that are immune to piercing and take extra damage from crushing (any statue for example), also crafted gear starts to become a thing around level 7. The mid game you will see axes start to shine because of this as well as their crafted ability to add 6-8% crit chance, but maces will never phase out of usefulness due to its crushing damage. By the end game piercing/slashing/crushing damage seem to even out entirely which mean flat damage becomes the most important factor. Because of that axes with their flat raw damage and extra crit chance are in. Frankly if you couldn't craft sword of planets or buffalo sabre at lv 22 then swords would be the weakest of the three and never really have a strong point the entire game- however, that is a very powerful combo after level 22.

Mace= Levels 1-7 Best, Levels 7-15 Mid, Levels 15-END Mid
Axe= Levels 1-7 Worst, Levels 7-15 Best, Levels 15-END Best
Sword= Levels 1-7 Mid, Levels 7-15 Worst, Levels 15-END Worst/Best

The best path for evolving off hand weapon use would be to use a mace in your off hand levels 1-7, an axe for levels 11-22 (after tenebrium addition to 6% crit axes), and then for FIN Bosses (post lv 22) use Sword of Planets (with Joshua's Spice) or a 8% crit axe or Buffalo Sabre.

Ideas from Zero7 helped with construction of this build, his link was found here: http://steamcommunity.com/app/373420/discussions/0/357284767244750359/

48 Comments

Pete

11/27/2016 09:37:37 am

Hey!
Short question: how can you craft 100 firestorm grenades in Cyseal? There are enough bottles i agree, but not enough fuses (or rope).
Thanks!

Ssenkrad_II

11/27/2016 11:12:16 am

In the FAQ I have a video explaining how to open up different areas of the world- if you jump around to all of these vendors every time you level up you will have more fuses than empty bottles and you will eventually run out of empty bottles while still having plenty of fuses...

There are a set number of empty bottles in the game but in infinite number of fuses; if you are running out of fuses you just need to shop more!

11/27/2016 12:26:54 pm

I understand, thank you very much for clarifying :)

Mateus

3/13/2019 07:17:38 pm

I think it's possible to make fuse from 2 ropes, and ropes from 2 Yarn, and Yarn from 2 Whool, and Whool from shears and a sheep near Esmeralda house.

iSangoma

11/28/2016 05:00:32 pm

Did you change the stats of the grenade wizzard? I was pumping up Speed points and not Dex like you show here. Thank you.

11/30/2016 07:51:52 pm

Honestly I have no idea which version you read! The guide has changed slightly over time as I have gotten more and more specific; earlier guide showed a lot more variance/openness while this guide is as specific as I can possibly be. The stats shown currently are correct!

11/30/2016 08:25:23 pm

Ah, ok, fair enough! These builds are a lot of fun to play, thanks for improving them over time. The game reviews you have here on the site are also a fun read, hopefully some developer will put out a new title that is 'worth full price' as you say. I agree that everything seems to be going down the dlc/beta/alpha toilet these days. Cheers.

Vecho

12/3/2016 12:06:20 am

Why should the character wield one dagger at all time?

12/5/2016 10:32:33 pm

You cannot use Scoundrel skills if you do not have a dagger equipped in your main hand. This is explained in more detail in video!

zion6

12/4/2016 09:54:32 pm

I have a sword and a cleaver that both say "slashing" damage. Why would they be any different from each other? (sword vs axe)

12/5/2016 10:36:35 pm

Early on a unique sword drops with a +1 speed on it and a unique club drops with a +1 strength; the club is better than the sword which is better than any ax you can find levels 1-7. Levels 7-FIN crafted axes will spawn with +% crit chance which swords do not, making them better. A white sword vs a white ax, both with no other bonuses would be basically the same thing with "slashing" damage.

12/5/2016 11:41:11 pm

So you look for +to crit on a crafted axe right? What do you look for on the dagger he uses?

12/10/2016 07:25:26 pm

The crafted daggers you are looking for +1/2/3 to Speed to spawn on them, which is shown in the crafting video when I craft the daggers! Obviously after crafting them you will add tormented souls and added weapon damage which is also gone over in much greater detail in the video...

Bob

12/11/2016 03:12:34 pm

Ya-wasn't sure if it was the same for Dual as for Shadowblade thanks

elessar

12/11/2016 12:12:23 am

I was thinking maybe going pyro instead of hydro on the grenadier wizard. What are your thoughts on this?

12/11/2016 10:22:32 am

Novice fire skills are terrible with only one being "good" (wildfire) a couple being "ugly" (burn my eyes, firefly), the adept skills are even worse with not a single one being "good" and the rest falling into "ugly" or flat out "bad", in master level skills for fire you will find "meteor shower" which is "ugly" as "hail attack" is better and even "storm" has better synergy with "hail attack" than "meteor shower"...

Bottom line is the only reason you would put more points into fire is purely because of "meteor shower" and if you were doing that to replace "hail attack" you not only would gain a worse master level skill you would also lose out across the board on novice and adept water skills which are worlds better than fire counterparts.

Could you do it? Sure. Would Pyro 4 be anywhere even close to as powerful as Hydro 4? Hell no...

12/11/2016 12:23:09 pm

thanx for the quick reply, I see now that you are right.

12/11/2016 12:36:45 pm

There are a lot of other fun builds and ways to easily beat the game, these builds in my guide however are more "min-max" which means everything gets put on the scale and is weighed for it pro's and con's. In this case, pyro 4 vs hydro 4, pyro brings nothing new to the table while losing vital spells, healing spells, and on top of that the damage spells (hail attack vs meteor shower) favor hydro...

1. Expert Marksman vs Hydro are close battles for best in the game
2. Air vs Witchcraft are close battles for best runner ups
3. Scoundrel vs Man-at-Arms are close battles for best mids
4. Fire vs Earth are close battles for worst of the game

Replacing 4 Expert Marksman or 4 Hydro with 4 Fire or 4 Earth is as clear of loss as there is in DOS; EE

foumantoo

12/15/2016 07:52:57 pm

I see you have "become Invisible/invisibilty" in this and Shadowblade charts. Isn't this redundant with "Walk in Shadows"?

12/15/2016 10:00:52 pm

You asked this question in the Spells/Skills/Items/ Abilities Overview section as well, you might not have noticed yet but I got around to answering you :)

1/9/2017 08:33:24 pm

I see the confusion
You might want to change your skill descriptions in the Air Tree to "Become Air" not "Become Invisible". There is a skill called "Invisibility" in the tree that could be confused for it, and that would be redundant with "Walk in Shadows"

TheFluffyPlayer

2/4/2017 03:57:49 am

Hi!

Awesome guide I have a question regarding lone wolf... So which trait should I sub for Lone wolf?

I thank you in advance!

2/4/2017 04:57:06 pm

Since you should take lone wolf at creation it will replace slingshot as pinpoint is much more valuable. Overall you could remove either opportunist or parry master in the long run.

Alex

2/17/2017 02:25:00 pm

Great Build, thanks for sharing!

I've been experimenting with it, and I've found that my attribute points are spread a bit thin early to mid game. Int is too low to land CC spells reliably, while STR and DEX are too low to land melee attacks reliably. I'm sure this can be fixed with gear bonuses later on as shown in your video, but what are your thoughts on a hybrid build between this and the shadowblade. Basically still taking pinpoint and slingshot to focus on grenades, but dual-weilding daggers rather than dagger/mace so I can dump STR. This might lower my melee damage output and armor, but it would allow me to have more points in DEX and INT. What do you think about such a trade off?

7/29/2017 12:56:19 pm

I talk about these trade offs in the Shadowblade build section.

Dual has a better spread (if built right) for the whole game while Shadowblade is weaker early-mid (when game is hardest) and stronger mid-end (when game is easiest)

Zzzz

3/20/2017 09:42:05 am

Hi there,

Where do you get grenades early game? Also do you have to be careful at all with using them and are they a pain to manage inventory wise? The build looks awesome but I don't want to spend a ton of time worrying about grenade inventory.

Can my wizard make them himself or do I need to get the crafting mule first?

7/29/2017 01:00:04 pm

You would need to carry crafting gear or get a mule for some grenade crafting.

There are specific people (like the general above the prison and below Arhu) who sell grenades on a regular basis that are great to fill in the cracks, but not enough to replace a crafter

I explain it in videos and in the guide, put all your grenades in a single backpack, don't remove the backpack from you inventory EVER, and then drag grenades down into the bar from backpack. Actually very easy to manage.

NewYears1978

5/1/2017 12:24:12 pm

How are you supposed to make grenades..no member from the 4 man group has any crafting abilities...

5/2/2017 02:31:52 pm

Watch the Crafting video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTF0_ydTd8g ) and read The Mule section of my guide for a detailed explanation

Koji

5/3/2017 07:11:56 am

Long after the story my wife and I began this game (no idea why its promo didn't hit us, probably cookies are not as reliable as they say :)).

I have to say many thanks to you for your work on this game. The multi classing (as long as this term as a sense in a skill-based sandbox like D/OS seems to be) was one of my favorite activity during DDO and i appreciate the builds you are proposing.

But i am only at the very beginning of the game, so i still have a few questions :
- You listed "Precise Incision" in the DWGW build (as a Scoundrel skill apparently). I can't figure out what it is. Is it quest-acquired ? Or a remnant of previous version (before Enhanced) ?
- It looks like you forgot to list Mass Slow as a skill for the Ranger build. I won't believe you don't use this skill (on paper, it looks like a must in Hydro) and if i look at the icon bars it seems you did put it in. So, Mass Slow or not ? ;)
- I noticed you are giving the exact same spells to both of the characters build for Geo or Pyro : cannot the group achieve more by having some other spells ? Or did you judge those little useful spells as simply the best for low level, neglecting any other in the list ?

I am not sure you are following this subject nowadays. But anyway your work is still useful for late players like we are and for this, we do thank you :)

Koji (editing)

5/3/2017 08:41:06 am

The wiki i was using had forgotten "Precise Incision". I found it elsewhere. Sorry for doubting you :)
Same for Mass Slow, definitely a typo, i'm sure :)

Last question is completed by this one :
On paper, i see all your Hydro (4) are using the exact same skills. How do you heal your group ? Are you only counting on crafted pots and food ?
I read Adrenaline, Fast Track and Wildfire descriptions and i suppose the whole purpose of those builds answers the old saying : "In MMO, no problem can't be fixed with a brutal input of DPS"
:)

Charlie Conway

7/29/2017 10:16:27 am

Thanks a lot for your hard work and time. Without asking for a huge, detailed layout, could you possibly point me in a direction for 2 other party members in a 4 Character Creation?

I love the ideas of the spell casting dual wielder and ranger type, but just wondering about a quick template you think would work for the last 2 members, since you said this is for Jahan and the woman. More melee? last 2 mostly ranged? I think the 4 mod allows for dismissal now so Mule shouldn't be a problem. Thanks for any assistance.

iSangama

7/29/2017 12:02:20 pm

Not sure if Ssenkrad still checks these posts, hopefully he is working on some sweet D:OS2 builds.

I do not really understand your question, becaue this IS a four member party guide i.e. ranger/grenade wizzard/shadowblade/Warrior. The links to these are on the right side of the site.

7/29/2017 12:13:10 pm

Yes, thank you, it is quite clear this is for a full party WITH COMPANIONS. He stated this is "for what's at your disposal without mods."

I was asking for him to point me in a direction for creating what he believes would be good compliments to the DW and Ranger with the 4-CHARACTER CREATION MOD. Since his guide is for the NON-CREATED companions, I was asking what he would do differently given the chance to CREATE 2 other party members, instead of building from what the game gives you with companions.

7/29/2017 12:53:21 pm

If you have to have a 2-handed melee fighter Madora is actually BETTER than anything you can create. (she comes with "comebackkid")

If you have to have a shadowblade, Jahan builds into it ALMOST perfectly, you wouldn't really be able to tell the difference in actual battle outcomes...

There are only two reasons why you should/would play with a four creation mod

1. Overkill, in which case if you are going for that, just build 3 ranger variants and one dual (you don't need light stepper and pet pal on all three ect.).

2. Four player coop, in which case it would make more sense to let each player decide for themselves right?

7/29/2017 12:13:56 pm

But yeah I saw that the last post was a while ago. Figured I'd attempt it anyway.

Mehmet

3/4/2018 11:45:40 pm

Hi,

I started play through with your character creation guide. It was fine until King Boreas fight. I failed 5-6 times then I watched your video on it. Your characters is one level above mine and they are doing 4 times more damage than my characters. What may be the problem? Almost all chars have epic/legendary weapons on them. Are you using crafted weapons on yours?

Regards,Mehmet

Valmont

6/14/2018 07:50:21 am

Why must one always wield a dagger in the main hand. What about situations where you need or have to stay at distance? Isn't it better to wield two wands instead? This latter question is unrelated to the first one - the dagger being *always* in the main hand. Also, when wielding a dagger and club or axe, why must the dagger be in the main hand, and not vice versa?

Xenvik

7/24/2018 10:33:22 pm

Hi, this guide is really helpful and I'm not sure if the writer still read these, but how do the ability points change with having to get 5 leadership? This will be my lonewolf character and I'm just wondering what to change about the build

Geralt

5/2/2019 02:45:24 am

The same question like for a fist build. Whad starting configuration for this character. i understand:
Man-at-Arms/Scoundrel/Water/Fire/Air
1. Slingshot
2 Pinpoint
part but dont know about boulder dash, midnight oil summon spider part (asI dont think it is what you want to get on start?). Less important but also starting equipment if it matters.

zerozero link

6/19/2019 02:43:33 pm

What does the notation Int/Dex/Str +1.5 (6.5/8/10) mean? Something with attributes, I guess ^^. Seriously, cannot figure out - its not explained in the "how to" section. Thank you.

Sarezar

11/7/2019 02:57:59 pm

Would also like to ask for clarification on this, please :)

11/7/2019 03:21:22 pm

Taken from the "How To" section:

*example*
Str- 7/9/11
Int- 7/9/11
Spd- 6/7/8

Attr. points should be added in the same ratios as listed. At creation you will have 5 attr. points to spend, in above example you will have 7 in your two primary stats (Str and Int) and 6 in your secondary stat (Spd), thus 7/7/6. By mid-game you should be around 9/9/7 and by level 20-22 you will have put in +4 into your two primaries and +2 into your secondary, giving you a base of 11/11/8 (gear, talents, and other things will increase these numbers further).

As you level up just put attr. points in the ratios listed in build.

END QUOTE

Int/Dex/Str +1.5 (6.5/8/10)

a 1.5 simply means instead of two mains and a secondary all three are equal. So replace the numbers above with the example I provided in the "how to"- at creation you will have 7/7/6 in the three, by mid game you will have 8/8/8 and by the end game 10/10/10...

TKGriffiths

11/25/2019 06:07:12 pm

What do you think about a zero strength build for the dual wield grenade wizard? I tried your build in my first playthrough without the grenades and it worked pretty well.

However I found my best source of damage mid game was Lacerate/Precise Incision with clobbering time/crafted axe in off hand, which I don't believe actually uses your strength stat at all. The damage is derived entirely from the base damage of the weapons and I believe may scale slightly with dex, but not strength.

So if all I need strength for is to equip axe/armor and activate Rage reliably, surely equipment alone can do that even if I invest nothing in strength? The dual weapons themselves give you +4 strength at level 14 after all. Later you will find sarongs, rings, belts, even armor to get you far above 10 with no investment.

So is strength really necessary at all? Late game we are just nuking things with master spells after all so at this point we would prefer more int or speed rather than strength.

Norah link

11/23/2020 05:38:21 pm

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11/27/2022 09:55:31 am

Hi, it's great to read your post. you informed us

Rat

2/26/2023 04:11:27 pm

THIS GUIDE STILL SLAPS IN 2023!

2. Power Build: Dual Wielding Grenade Wizard

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